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Lab Assistant
#126 Old 12th Dec 2012 at 6:20 AM Last edited by ansleon : 12th Dec 2012 at 5:03 PM.
I've put a lot there in my game that I intend to place a pond on that can be used for fishing (since right now there are no fishing spawners in the world) and for ice skating when it freezes over (also something a pond is needed for). I haven't really watched sims route around over there, but yeah, a sim will always take the shorter route if a way is not specifically marked with sidewalk or road. Though, it doesn't honestly bother me that much usually, since I don't tend to watch sims that I'm not actively managing, so I don't see the totally dumb things they are doing

I figured the brewery needed an irrigation pond, anyways.

Edited to add: Last night I moved a family into one of the houses in town that has a stable. I hadn't created a horse in CAS when I made the family, so I thought they could adopt one. I had one of the dudes call for the adoption and got the confirmation that the social worker would be around shortly. However, the social worker never came. I assume this is because the world has no roads, therefore there is no way for the social worker to drive up in his/her vehicle to deliver the adoptee. This is not really a big playability deal (I can make a horse or other pet in CAS to add to the family), however it's something that you might want to add to the notes on playing the world for future downloaders. Adoptions of kids will presumably fail as well. (So, e.g., if someone wanted to run a medieval orphanage in this world, they would need some other strategy for acquiring kids for the orphanage. Could be frustrating for a player who didn't know about this ahead of time.)
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Field Researcher
#127 Old 12th Dec 2012 at 8:42 PM Last edited by Envie42 : 12th Dec 2012 at 9:03 PM.
It's a really good suggestion lowrsim gave about the horses grazing issue. I also had that problem in the one medieval town I played for a long while. I ended up leveling small patches of areas in town and adding a 'horse ranch' public lot. I fenced it in but left two open 'gates' on either side, added a horse trough for water and a small 'stable' (two horse stables with heavy beam pillars and a simple roof over top, open on all sides). I called these lots "Public Stable Yard" and it worked out very nicely. They ended up being popular places for people with horses to 'hang out' and play guitar, chat, read books, etc. I'll see if I can dig up a photo or two of what mine looked like. The terrain paints do end up making a difference as some custom paints end up being interpreted by the game engine as non-grass and horses are coded to only graze on grassy areas.

Edit: Here's a couple screenshots of my smaller 20x15 'public horse grazing lot' -- there were typically 4-8 sims there at all times of the day just hanging out. This one does not have a stable. I ended up removing the jumping fences as this lot was too small for them.

I think public horse grazing fields are a great idea and needed for Praaven.



I did find a shot of one of the smaller 'stables' I added to an odd corner lot against a large hilly /mountain area. With it being on a steep grade like that, the horses and sims would enter from the left side of the L shape and then horses could go in and out of the small stable area to sleep / eat, etc. This lot took up very little space but afforded horses somewhere to go when non-playable sims would ride their horse to town or farther out in the country. I found that horses DO autonomously go to neighboring public lots instead of just stand there in the street or front door of a house, so these small public horse grazing lots became very helpful and entertaining places for horses and the sims who rode them around autonomously.


Twist of Fate - My Random Legacy Challenge
Field Researcher
#128 Old 13th Dec 2012 at 2:34 AM Last edited by Envie42 : 13th Dec 2012 at 3:12 AM. Reason: Added more test info
I've been running a Sim all over Praaven this evening. So far so good and it looks fabulous all the new additions!

Re: Arches with pathing issues:

I have a screenshot of my tester Sim, Dax, who has graciously agreed to leave his elven forest and help test Praaven. He is showing you the arches that Sim mortals will have problems with, in Amrhein Hall.



If I direct him to 'Go Here' he will do so by going over the top of the spiral staircase. But going up the stairs autonomously, on his own, he could not reach the other side. I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread these are from using CFE during building? Does deleting them and replacing them in build mode fix the problem (yes - it fixes the arches, just tested)?

Edit: He also cannot go back down the spiral staircase after going up and remains stuck upstairs. I've noticed whenever I put spiral staircases too close to other navigated build objects (doors, arches, etc) this sometimes happens. spiral staircases in general are very glitchy. I love them a lot but man they're a pain to build with. I'll see if I can fiddle with them in build mode and fix the problem at least in that one area of Amrhein Hall.

Edit2: Yes, it's the arch between the door and the spiral staircase causing the problem (its overlapping spiral staircase access tile). Removing it, but leaving the three arches facing the balcony area makes the spiral staircase usable with no pathing issues.


Twist of Fate - My Random Legacy Challenge
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#129 Old 13th Dec 2012 at 2:48 AM
I'll definitely add a grazing ground in the meadows beside the monastery; they are fairly underutilized at the moment. As for the archway issue, those arches seem to be fairly touchy when it comes to CFE. I'll have to take a look at it (or anyone who wants to furnish the hall).
Lab Assistant
#130 Old 13th Dec 2012 at 6:09 PM
Chiming in to say that I have had the same issue with those gothic-style arches in every lot that I've put sims into thus far. Deleting and re-placing them takes care of the issue. Also, in a given lot, not all of the arches seem to be affected...I'm not sure why some are and some aren't.

Update on my idea for using the subway rabbithole rug at the gates in the city so sims can travel to far-flung locations: It led to predictable idiocy wherein a sim ran from his house in the middle of the city (not far from the market square) to the southern gate station, took the subway to the eastern gate station, then ran to St. Simians. Too many subway stations in the city itself apparently leads to sims grandly miscalculating their routes in order to make the subway a priority. *sigh*

I solved my problem of not being able to adopt a horse (due to lack of roads for the social worker to use) using Twallan's Master Controller, which allows immediate adoption using the game's interface.

A horse I was controlling was able to graze in Basseterre Park. I haven't checked for other grazing locations yet.

I downloaded a mod from MATY which allows the options on a stray/wildlife gnome to be set on a community lot. Without a mod, the options can't be set, so the sign will always welcome strays/wildlife. Haven't seen any more wild horses or other wildlife in/around the city yet, but I actually haven't been able to play a lot yet since I've been setting up families and trying to get things work correctly for them. (I've only gotten through maybe 3 sim days with the whole city.)

A suggestion for some of the larger lots where the front or downstairs portion of the house is intended to be used as a street-facing commercial or craftsman's space: Perhaps place the public room marker in those rooms? This will both drop the overall value of the property (meaning that fewer families will be "rich" right off the bat), and it will mean that visitors can freely enter those spaces, which seems appropriate. Since the level skip marker has already been used in many lots, the rbbb off cheat is needed anyways to modify them, so adding the public room markers doesn't add to the remodeling burden for players. (I'd also suggest adding to the gameplay notes for the world that rbbb off may be needed if a player wants to make lot modifications. Could confuse less-experienced players.)
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#131 Old 13th Dec 2012 at 11:12 PM
Another solution to the adopt an animal issue may be to place a short length of road or an intersection somewhere in the road (where it can fit in), allowing cars to very briefly spawn. Service sims will then exit their cars and walk to their destinations. I don't know if this will work over longer distances, though.

Subway rugs are definitely only necessary over long distances; too short a distance will cause confusion and divert sims from more logical and time-saving paths.

I think the arch issue will resolve itself though, as lots are furnished by people, they will likely be tested too, eventually eliminating the issue.

Quote: Originally posted by Envie42
I have downloaded the latest version of your CC, but which is the correct version for playtesting the world? I am downloading it today to start another run through (I still have the older one installed). I need whichever version is reportedly working well for testing with 1.42 patch. If you have a version that's working, could you update your link on the first page as well? It still says you must use 1.36.

1.36 files should work on any games patched past them, 1.42 included.

Small sidenote:
If any of you have seen this, it encapsulates the feeling of what I'm aiming for fairly well. Humor, action, a fairly well-fleshed out historical setting and touch of the fantastical. It's a short read, but fairly well-written and has some nice artwork.
Field Researcher
#132 Old 14th Dec 2012 at 1:12 AM
Thanks, I went ahead and downloaded your most recent version as of Dec. 02 and it's working just fine for testing!

I know it's your decision as the world creator, but I would like to at least give my opinion that you should not add any length of road simply for adding service sim capability.

The issues and immersion factor outweigh the benefits IMO. Castle Keep had small sections of road dispersed throughout and I found it to be much buggier... service sim cars getting stuck and not retrieved, ice cream trucks piling up, etc. Twallan's Traffic mod helped a lot in eliminating the random ice cream trucks and taxis, but it's my opinion that if I have to use a mod to 'fix' the road / car issues then I'd rather not have the roads at all and use a mod to spawn the things I need anyways such as horses / pets. Praaven does not need ice cream trucks or pizza deliveries does it? Maids will not spawn, this is probably one of the few I see a big problem with. Butlers, in my previous testing, seem to spawn without a vehicle and do not require roads to spawn. Repairmen and maids use their own vehicles. Firemen will spawn on a lot that has a fire, even without a fire truck. (which is mildly annoying to my immersion hehe).

Twist of Fate - My Random Legacy Challenge
Theorist
#133 Old 14th Dec 2012 at 10:05 AM Last edited by tizerist : 14th Dec 2012 at 11:48 AM.
I must say, having cars spawn would be a deal breaker. This is the most important thing in a medieval hood bar none. Cars must be avoided at all costs
Although I am quite confident that having roads can be possible without cars. Shimrods no cars mod plus twallans traffic mod make this quite possible.
And besides, adopting pets isn't very medieval is it. Don't you have to use a phone to do that? The only thing you should be using the phone for is travelling to another town. Apart from that, the phone gets completely ignored in a medieval savegame.

#BlairWitchPetition
TS3 NEEDS: TENNIS COURTS > BUSES > PIGS/SHEEP
Can't find stuff in build and buy mode? http://www.nexusmods.com/thesims3/mods/1/?
Test Subject
#134 Old 14th Dec 2012 at 2:12 PM
Adopting pets it's as old as humanity. You can adopt strays by befriending them in the street
Theorist
#135 Old 14th Dec 2012 at 3:56 PM
Point taken. I thought you had to use a phone.

#BlairWitchPetition
TS3 NEEDS: TENNIS COURTS > BUSES > PIGS/SHEEP
Can't find stuff in build and buy mode? http://www.nexusmods.com/thesims3/mods/1/?
Lab Assistant
#136 Old 15th Dec 2012 at 7:38 PM
I tried to test Praaven last night, and it crashed to desktop when it began to load the world at the first time. It's what happens with most custom worlds, but not all of them. ._. I'll do the crashing checklist next time I get on sims, I'll tell you if it works after I get rid of all my cc.
Test Subject
#137 Old 15th Dec 2012 at 8:03 PM
Don't mean to be a bother, but I'm a tad confused?

This world is a medieval world, like the other world jje1000 was creating last year?

"Worlds/Neighborhoods - A Medieval/Renaissance City- [Test Version July 28] - - The Other Side of the River (No Love for CAW) -"

I know that thread has been locked, so has it also been discontinued? Is this world a sort of second generation of that previous world with the same concept of an entirely medieval town? Is this world ready for mass download to the MTS community?

Both worlds are gorgeous of course, can't wait for either of their completions!
Lab Assistant
#138 Old 16th Dec 2012 at 12:01 AM
Samiam13, your understanding is correct - this is the new version of the world jje1000 was creating previously.

I think no roads can be great. I've played in one custom world that had no roads, and it was really neat aside from it taking forever to get anywhere. However, that was pre-late night, so subways weren't an option, and of course there were no horses to ride.

In my opinion, jje1000, I'd stick to your original vision. Try it road-free and see how it works. You'll still have the CAW files after you release the world, correct? So you can update the world if you find it absolutely needs roads. But really, I think if you tie your world to someone else's mod (like the no-car mod), it's just extra work for the player, and for you if you plan to support the world after you release it. You already have enough CC that has to be updated every time the game is patched.

Having a maid would be great for the nobles, but I often just make a "maid" in CAS and plop it into a household, as long as the sim has the "neat" trait, s/he'll clean the whole lot every sim day with minimal player effort. The other service npcs aren't really historically accurate, imo.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#139 Old 16th Dec 2012 at 12:25 AM Last edited by jje1000 : 16th Dec 2012 at 5:38 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Samiam13
Don't mean to be a bother, but I'm a tad confused?

This world is a medieval world, like the other world jje1000 was creating last year?

"Worlds/Neighborhoods - A Medieval/Renaissance City- [Test Version July 28] - - The Other Side of the River (No Love for CAW) -"

I know that thread has been locked, so has it also been discontinued? Is this world a sort of second generation of that previous world with the same concept of an entirely medieval town? Is this world ready for mass download to the MTS community?

Both worlds are gorgeous of course, can't wait for either of their completions!


That world became this world. The city was moved and the landscape drastically reshaped. The only area that hasn't changed too much is the monastery. That world will never be finished, since I was never really happy with it. That thread became inactive during the time I was working on this world, and faced with either reviving it or starting a new thread, I chose the latter since the world had changed so much.

Quote: Originally posted by lulume
Having a maid would be great for the nobles, but I often just make a "maid" in CAS and plop it into a household, as long as the sim has the "neat" trait, s/he'll clean the whole lot every sim day with minimal player effort. The other service npcs aren't really historically accurate, imo.


Could a butler fulfill the same role? Though to be honest, an off-lot sim would be better than one that takes up space on an existing lot.

Quick question! Should I replace the lamps I'm currently using with the Libra Lamps? Those lamps are the ones I've been using on lots, but I use the Laissez-faire Double Lamppost. The Libra Lamps might fit a little better into the world, but would become outdated as the player reaches later periods. Moreso, there are no placeable lights in-game, so players will be unable to update them.

Picture of the Libra Lamp, which came with Pets:http://wiki.thesimsresource.com/ima.../Libra_Lamp.png

The Laissez-faire Double Lamppost is visible in-game or in the pictures I posted earlier.

Also: I believe Lowrisim raised a point earlier that pews were a Victorian invention. What did people use to worship back then? Did they just stand?
Lab Assistant
#140 Old 16th Dec 2012 at 2:56 AM Last edited by lowrisim : 17th Dec 2012 at 4:14 PM. Reason: spelling and refernce added
Quote: Originally posted by jje1000
Also: I believe Lowrisim raised a point earlier that pews were a Victorian invention. What did people use to worship back then? Did they just stand?


The long answer under the spoiler


Short answer Yes I think they stood

no clue about the lights

As for the maids... that is a loss but probalby not worth the other issues roads would bring. I think Butlers are live in NPCs NOT family members so don't take up a space. Can someone confirm this that plays with them?

EDIT:
Now on my computer: so if you want more info on pews... that won't help you play sims look under spoiler
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#141 Old 16th Dec 2012 at 5:39 AM
Took a break off of work and made some additional minor changes to the cathedral- some tastefully scattered tombs and reworking of the pillars. I still would like to take some time and create a vaulted ceiling, but of course, time and the fact that there are more significant buildings to finish.

The cathedral is interesting in terms of its state. It was being rebuilt from a Romanesque form into a Gothic form- but work has stalled for at least a hundred years due to political instability and now the plague. As such, there's a clear distinction between the parts which have been rebuilt and those which have not. A potential player scenario may be about the cathedral's complete reconstruction and the construction of a new spire-topped tower on the westworks (which will need to be a custom object due to the height limit, or maybe some custom 4-storey-windows-which-are-actually-only-1-storey which allow two floors to be freed up to create the tower).

"Gothic" Choir- The Octagonal Roof causes issues, but whatever


Romanesque Nave


After the Player has rebuilt all of the Cathedral?


Of Note: How were burial slabs arranged in cathedrals? I know that important people were buried in the choir, but were there any in the nave? Also, how do you think a chapel can be fit into the castle? I don't want it in the courtyard space, or protruding too much out of the building though. It also needs to face east.
Lab Assistant
#142 Old 17th Dec 2012 at 5:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jje1000
Of Note: How were burial slabs arranged in cathedrals? I know that important people were buried in the choir, but were there any in the nave? Also, how do you think a chapel can be fit into the castle? I don't want it in the courtyard space, or protruding too much out of the building though. It also needs to face east.


As for the burial slabs in Cathedrals, I was hoping someone that actually knew would post. I did not pay close enough attention. My memory of the cathedrals in England is the norm was they ran east to west, and where worked in the the very thick exterior walls, or the screens, or between columns, or in side Chapels. There were definitely some in the nave, the question is date. So I tried looking things up on the internet and in some of the books I have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_of_Dover this claims the burial site of Richard of Dover is in the north aisle of the nave.

this shows some photo of very decorated tombs worked into the walls, screens, or side altars and the photos date shrines and tombs. http://www.shafe.co.uk/art/micro-architecture.asp

I don't remember slabs in the floor like in the village churches ... but this might be do to renovations... as sometime there was a list on the wall of who had been buried close to this site, or just too many other things to look at and I missed them.

As you said the idea is to get the the basics right... the particulars have to be flexible. There ARE tombs in Cathedrals. Layout and design can very a bit by what is possible in sims. Sims do not have thick walls to work with!

Castle chapel; I have not been playing this area. But could not the old church be the church for the castle area.... and the chapel for the Royal household be a private Chapel IN the Castle? Rather than a separate lot, since you are tight on space.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#143 Old 18th Dec 2012 at 5:25 AM
For the castle chapel, I'm looking for a spot on the main Castle Keep lot for the chapel... though a spot elsewhere in the keep might work as well.
Instructor
#144 Old 19th Dec 2012 at 9:41 PM Last edited by High Plains Gamer : 19th Dec 2012 at 10:18 PM.
FYI, if you are interested in seeing a short video showing medieval Paris, one is available on Youtube. A longer version of this video is available, but you have to order it from France.

One thing I have always found rather facinating is that buildings were built on the bridges. You might think you are walking down a street, with shops and homes on both sides of the street, but you are really crossing a bridge. The practice stopped in the 16th century.

As for standing in church, this is definitely the case in Eastern Rite churches. I remember standing through a two hour mass in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) which was SUNG in old church Slavonic.

I remember I had my hands behind my back and one of the Babas (old women who are keepers of the morality) started to chide me for my disrespect. Then another baba chided her, telling her that I was a foreigner and should be excused.

And yes, churches are tombs. As I recall, for example, archeologists found well over 1000 bodies under the floor of the chapel in the Tower of London. (I believe it's St. Peter's Chapel.) This was a pretty small chapel by the way.

Fairly prominent people are often buried under the floors, or in the walls of Cathedrals. Westminster Abbey is a prominent example containing the tombs of many kings starting with Edward the Confessor as well as many of England's greatest poets, playwrights, authors and even a few politicians. But you can find the boxes containing the remains of Saxon kings and a tomb believed to be that of William II in Winchester Cathedral. In fact, going into the crypt at Winchester, I looked down and saw that the steps were old headstones which had been removed from the churchyard. It seems that just about every place you step or just about every section of wall contains someone's tomb.
Test Subject
#145 Old 19th Dec 2012 at 11:45 PM
Just an FYI - I put your world in my game and have a sim living her second day there. Beautiful world! Am I right in thinking you still haven't added spawners? Fishing doesn't seem to be a problem though. I'm really impressed! Will let you know if I run into any problems.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#146 Old 22nd Dec 2012 at 7:45 PM Last edited by jje1000 : 29th Dec 2012 at 5:59 AM.
Spawners will be added once everything else is completed. The reason for this is that people may simply download and play the world without offering help, as the world is essentially complete except for the spawners!

Anyways- Lots to Work on:

- Tovar and Mahlsberg manors and inns- currently up for grabs
- Praaven inns- currently up for grabs
- Lughaven needs interior decoration- currently up for grabs
- Ruined Keep needs interior decoration- currently up for grabs
- Foothill house- Were worked on by silverwyd, who is still missing
- Praaven Castle- Main Keep needs to be decorated; an updated keep will be included in the next update- currently up for grabs
- St. Jacob of the Mask needs a crypt- handled by lowrisim[/B]
- St. Simian's is mostly complete- handled by me
- Sacre Bleu Hosptial needs to be finished- currently up for grabs
- Bishop's Palace needs to be finished- handled by lowrisim
- The Bathhouse needs an interior - currently up for grabs
- Most City Houses need interiors!- currently up for grabs, rian90 is working on some of them
- [U]Varangian Quarter Houses- handled by me
- The Wall Towers need to be fixed- handled by me

Finished Lots:

- The Fowl Royale II is complete- handled by me
- Dock Structure are complete- handled by me
- City Hall is complete- handled by me
- Monastery is almost done, except for Abbot's Manor- handled by lowrisim
- Tovar and Mahlsberg houses and chapels- handled by me

Edit: Updated some choices.
Lab Assistant
#147 Old 22nd Dec 2012 at 9:26 PM
I will take the Bishop's Palace next. I have looked at it before.
I have some stuff on the Bishop's Palace in Lincoln to go on.

I am making good head way on the Abbot's manor now. I have the rough layout. and your ideas really helped.

Once I get the abbots house done I will be working up in the city area so can take a look at the others on the list up there.

Might also be helpful to know which city houses Rian90 has done... or is working on
Lab Assistant
#148 Old 24th Dec 2012 at 5:14 PM
I like what I see so far! It's amazing! Quite the Medieval World you've got going on here!

Still is the water green and thick,
He'll drag you under with his stick,
See flaxen gold floats there through the mist,
He killed someone's daughter with his wick,
An arm with grey skin bobs slowly in the pit.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#149 Old 26th Dec 2012 at 9:12 PM
A few snaps, slow, slow progress these days. Still hoping to get this world out of the door.







Test Subject
#150 Old 27th Dec 2012 at 10:11 PM
Beautiful!
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