You've made an excellent point. When I did my first beauty contest, I had a total of 27 applicants and was only looking for 24 so 3 were eliminated. When I PM'd the judges, I asked them to judge them on beauty and creativity. I think next time, I'll either have no eliminations or just have my judges score them on an overall basis, such as of a score from 1 to 10 or something.

The only thing with not having eliminations in your application round is that you may have too many applicants.

Michele, I agree with you about making contests for amatours and pros. Where can this be proposed?

Miss Starless Beauty is always a success and its an incredible idea, I think there's been what, 2 cycles? it always draws a crowd and gives so-called amateurs a chance to win their first star and receive positive feedback along the way.

what i think in applications is to always have a freeshot a freeshot can show creativity and isnt just looking pretty its having substance
and with the younger hosts comments i half agree i think any age there are people who dont realise what a contest entails and then wish they could just close it so they dont try i am only 14 but although i had some judging problems i think i had things in good timing but i also think that was to do with my personality not my age

EDIT: I also totally disagree with the amatuers thing i think people should be able to enter what they want i would be considered an amatuer but i love entering big contests evn though ill be first to be elliminated i love the imagination for rounds and organiseation which is what draws the pros in

That's what I did.

Yeah I don't think age has anything to do with it. I've seen some pretty hosts and judges who were honeynut's age and did an awesome job and then there were people who were my age (22) or older who did poorly. :shrug: I just think it has to do with their patience and common sense. As long as you're fair to everyone, have the time for it, and submit the rounds and/or scores on time, it's really not that hard. For me at least.

Dreea, I was basically joking about that one! I LOVE a challenge (what can I say, I'm a Leo ) and I would enter the pro's contest before I entered the amatours. I learn from the people that do well and ask alot of questions. And yes, there is a contest for people without stars. I started the first one last yeat and someone else picked it up and I was happy they did! I had to ask the mods for permission to do that. It was something different.

FurryPanda, I maybe wrong, but weren't you the judge that had cruel comments when judging? If it wasn't you, I'm sorry. But I think it was Stormy's contest if I'm not mistaken..............

Yeah Michele. But in my own defense, I didn't think anything I had said was off the line, but then again I had just gotten back from I.T.S and was still in that mindset. Hindsight... Anyhow, I did make as public an apology for that as I thought was prudent and I consider it to be in the past. Personal apologies to you if you didn't receive it. And again, no offense intended.

Anyway, back on topic. What people are saying about younger judges scoring over generously, i mean I think that its worse not too. From a statistical standpoint as long as their over scoring is consistent it won't affect standings, and for someone to get a rock bottom score (less than 10-20%) its a rather large slap in the face. When I judge I try never ever to score anyone in say, less than the thirtieth percentile, because almost no one IS less than that. I think once in six contests I had to score someone overall less than that mark. And probably thrice in individual categories. I figure that whatever pattern you use as long as your consistent, at the very least in that contest, then its alright because the weight is the same. If that made any sense.

Why not instead of eliminating applicants that you just only accept the first x number of applicants?



It really depends on how the scores are treated. One judge with a large variation in score can over ride multiple judges who only give high scores.

I think that by using more than 3 judges and mathematically balancing the scores you can at least overcome some prejudice, on the rare, rare, rare occasion there is any.

Well I have a question for everyone who has complained in this thread about unfair judges: Why oh why havent these instances been brought to my attention?

As stated many times, there is no way I can be privy to private judging's goings-on. Judging is secretive and is usually transmitted via PM or email between hosts and judges, hence the reason I cannot actively moderate every instance of judging period (plus there arent enough hours in a day).

Im certainly not trying to be rude but point blank... If you didnt or wont bring favoritism-smelling-judging to my attention, you have no right to complain here or anywhere else on the site. Period.

I think the purpose of the debate room is for people to be able to speak their minds on whatever the topic is. So they do have a right to complain.

MicheleD, i have never won a contest, but i started to advance, lol. I was
placed 3rd in Miss Curves. Can't complain on that. Back to judging, i was
freaking scared to be a judge for the first time. But after some experience,
i feel confident enough to judge fair. I do not create sims 2 stuff official,
reason: i am too busy. Maybe creating would increase chances to win?
I simply do not know. I have photobackground and artschools, so i am
pretty sure i know what i am doing when i judge a contest. I am also checking judges before i enter a contest, i am very suspicious. And i wonder
if that person is mature for such tasks. But i think they are doing fine, one never actually know what they are looking for, we are all so different.

Well, i do not have a need for showing off creations or making a yearbook,
i am just here to have some fun, that's all.

Thankyou for the compliment.

That is one reason why I decided to make a "Starless" contest, for the simple fact that it does give those who are new to contests, or those who have entered quite a few without success of winning a star, be able to have that chance without feeling the threatened *so to speak* of a multi-star winning contestant taking out 1st again. And I absolutely love knowing at the end of the contest, the winner who has taken the star is a happy as a pig in poo.


On a personal opinion with contests....I have had some rude comments, and what not, and instead of getting upset, I just refuse to enter a contest if a particular member/s or judge/s is in it. Nor do I enter a contest with a unfair host now. Once bitten twice shy. But when the host does not inform judges of changes to the rules and then points are deducted because of that, and then your eliminated because the judges think that you didn't follow the rules, even though the host said it was ok to do something a certain way, that is one of my pet peeves.

But all in all, I enjoy contests, and if I see someone entering a contest who I know is really good I will enter the contest just for the competition, to see if I can excel better than previous ones. RomyHorse to me is just the bomb when it comes to decorating contests and one day hopefully I will beat him. But until then, I just learn by my mistakes, take notes, and look at others work for inspiration.

Thats my little ditty.

I don't think that's what she meant. I think she's just saying that if you just complain, but not actually do anything- bring it to the attention of someone who can, what's the point in complaining in the first place?

You're more than welcome Mumo, I wish Miss Starless was around when I was starting out here LOL Great idea.





Some contests on InSim do that. The only problem that some have run into with this idea is that some people may really want to enter, but cannot get to a PC/laptop in time to get an entry in. So giving a few days for apps helps them out, gives them time. Some contests may be so popular that apps reach 25 in one day, so although the idea is a good one, it may not work for all if the contest is as popular as some i've seen.

I really think that as long as you think about your entry and really make it your own... it doesn't matter what the judges say... cause everyone viewing the thread knows you rock! I have had judges not get my ... hmmm humor shall we say? I'd get consistent scores from other judges but I just couldn't please that one... :coughdiscountsuperherocough: ... lol I don't think that this was intentional/personal though... I really just think they hated my stuff... I think it's also about knowing what certain contests are looking for. You can get away with certain things in a 'funny' contest that would just look silly in a 'beauty' contest.

on the other hand

I have hosted contests where i've gotten scores back and gone... 'Whoa!!! Why did you give that person such a low score!?' and PMed the judge about it and they said they totally stuck by their score and explained why it was what it was... I had to respect that... it is, after all, their opinion. So... I'm not saying it doesn't happen.. I'm just saying I've never really experienced it personally. I have also had a contest with no eliminations until the last round... that worked out well for me cause people took themselves out and anyone who was really interested in continuing could. I don't think that would work if you had 60 + apps though


Also... about the stars
Sooooooooooo many people drop out of contests (or maybe just my contests... j/k) so sometimes some silly beginner gets a star just cause they stuck it out. (like me )

I don't think it has as much to do with the age of the host as the maturity, if that makes any sense. One of the best hosts this community has ever seen was 16-17 when she was running contests where 40 contestants was a low turnout and 60 was about average.

As far as why this is coming up now... honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if people were afraid to come forward until Dreea brought it up. That's certainly why I kept quiet about my issue for almost two years. I'm reminded of something they tell us in physics: if you don't understand something, ask a question, because odds are other people are wondering the same thing. However, it's so easy to feel like an idiot when it looks like everyone else understands, and even more so when you do muster up the courage to ask "How do we go about normalizing that thing?" and your professor says, "Same as anything else - psi star psi." (That totally happened to me in quantum today.) If the results of a contest come in and everyone is like "woohoo go winner!" but you have a feeling that something is amiss, it's scary to speak up because you'll feel like everyone will just think you're a sore loser. There have been many times I've been able to tell who the winner of a contest will be right after the application round, and that just ain't right.

I've had to instruct my judges in the past to not give high scores. When every contestant gets a 9/10 or 10/10 on their pictures, you can't go anywhere... usually I do a ranking system in my contests to get around that, but because of the nature of a set of contests I'm running on another forum, can't do it that way. Remember, judges - it's okay to give low scores! Just be consistent, know your criteria, and be able to back up your choices.

i dont get this can someone explain to be whats the diffrence if someone gives a 7 to the lowest and a 10 to the highest to a person who gives a 4 to the lowest and an 8 to the highest i think as long as scores are consistent it dosnt matter after all the scores will all just be a bit higher i mean i can understand when scores are odd eg everyone gets a 6 and one person gets a a 10 but if everyone gets a 9 (as long as everyones as good as eachother) whats the big deal

I agree with many of you on this. I don't think the age of a judge plays a big part in it. I have had judges 13 years old that were great! AND never won a contest and I always wondered why! I also want to bring this out and it just might get me in some trouble, but hey it's a debate thread and no names, however I know who they are..... We keep talking about the judges, but I have seen plenty of Hosts that have their favorites too! I believe we all have our favorites when running a contest! Thats why I never ever judged my own contests! I also always put a note up in all my contests saying- if you have a favorite sim and think she's wonderful, please PM that person and tell them. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that makes some peiople feel like, why go on? This can't be helped, I know that! I get the compliment on some of my sims and I always say, thank you and I also say, I think all the sims out here are wonderful! But thats just me. Because I know how it can hurt to spend hours on a sim and get no feedback but someone else does.


boolPropped, I do agree with you! But I'm just not that way. And I truly thought maybe someone else might bring it to a mods attention. However, I think we all should keep this in mind for the future! I don't know what could be done and I don't like to squeal and or kiss and tell! Thats why I like the idea of this thread. Now you know whats going on


sakrayami, I have a terrible habit of "sometimes" checking out someone's work from other contests if I don't know them :devil2: I like your pics alot!

I think all this started when they started giving out the stars. I think it was a wonderful idea. But some take it too serious! I had to wait almost a year before I won my first contest! But I kept trying and got alittle better aand watched and tried to learn (I'm still learning and don't know alot about PS) So what I'm trying to say is that I see people only out here a day- week-month getting mad they did not win. Be patient I say, your day will come! There are some waiting longer!

boolPropped, a few months ago, I pm`ed you with a problem I had in a contest. I had the same score with a very ugly entry. Not trying to be rude, but the entry was so distorted and not well erased and such...and I've worked my butt to make mine look at least clean and nice. And you told me there is no difference between my entry and that entry. I wasn't thinking at favoritism back then, because maybe I didn't know. But...I no longer have the guts to report. (It's not an acusation, it's just a fact that happened to me and made me feel like sh*t)

boolPropped, of course noone can show you proof of a biased judge, but I can confirm you that there are times when I ask myself "How can this one has won???" and I am not speaking about contests I've entered. I found fun reading what a contest "produces" so I follow even contests where I am not in... and I can assure you that one xxx judges a contest where yyy is entering, the result is somehow obvious.
IE: it has happened to me in more than a contests where I was judging. I usually am quite "rude" with my comments (ok, I am fair with comments and not a hypocrite!, but of course, since English is not my mother language, I know few words to express my point without sounding rude, that is the reason I always apologize before starting comments ), because I take seriously the thing "Be sincere, so they can improve", but my scores are usually the higher. More than once has happened that people, reading my comments, started screaming with anger, and why? Because other judges simply said: "Oh, good work, I like what you have done!". The facts were that my scores where highest, but of course, people couldn't know that!

Like I said the point here is to "debate" the issue at hand. If having this debate brings the issue out into the open then maybe it WILL encourage people to report this kind of behavior. But telling people not to complain doesn't help in the matter.

If you have 3 judges and 2 of them score them high and in the same order if the third judge scores them with a wider range in the exact opposite order they will override the other 2 judges.

J1 + J2 + J3 = Total -> Rank
50 + 49 + 30 = 129 -> 5
49 + 48 + 35 = 132 -> 4
48 + 46 + 40 = 134 -> 3
47 + 45 + 45 = 137 -> 2
46 + 42 + 50 = 138 -> 1

Looking at the scores you can see that the range doesn't need to be that large to make such a thing happen. This isn't because someone is trying to manipulate scores, it happens just because of natural differences in judging/scoring.

agh i get it now thankyou for clearing that up

I am using a ranking system to score my contest to avoid just that, I think it evens out the differences between the judges.



:blush: Actually I do the same thing with eedgan and coldfloral (and I'm a she by the way, just too lazy to change my profile ).

It really helps to use a ranking system. I did on my contest as well.